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New variety of "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct" on eBay? 9 years 7 months ago #30613

I've sold quite a few RC cars on eBay over the last few years & have seen listing fees dwindle to nothing in some cases, post sale fees increase massively (and to include postage), and postage costs increase (massively in the case of small to medium packets/parcels through UK Royal Mail).

Through all of that though, I think I've had my prices about right - or on the low side - because most of them get sold quickly. I haven't kept any statistics to demonstrate this, but at a guess the distribution is something like:
 within 4 hours    30%
    "  12 hours    30%	
    "   4 days     25%	
    "   10 days    10%		
    "   21 days     5%	
        longer      0%

I would guess my average sale is around 65 GBP + 10 postage, with 7.50 GBP going on eBay fees, 2.50 on Paypal, 12 on postage & 3 on packing materials, so a net of 50. Or a loss if you count spending more than that in the first place, and always some more in the process of improving it.

I'm not saying I begrudge this - I find most of the enjoyment for me in RC (and model making in general) is the making/restoring, but from the keeping/using it after, sometimes very little. It's just a fact that built kits are worth less than unbuilt ones, and only very rarely is a restored car worth more than the purchase cost and the parts/paint - Just look at the mockery some eBay sellers have had here when their pricing suggests that they think their toys appreciate by 50% when built "professionally", and by another 50% when sold as part of a "collection".


Moving on (and this is still background, not my actual rant ... well, not the new one anyway), I'm no stranger to bargaining on eBay - which, despite what appears to be a campaign by stupid people, IS NOT the same as "bartering".

I don't actively encourage it, but if someone is willing to collect instead of having something shipped, that's worth a bit of a discount to me as I won't have the hassle or expense of packing, and I won't have to put up with eBay thieving 10% of the postage cost. OK, maybe "thieving" is not the correct phrase, but what else would you call taking a percentage on a service you don't provide? Extortion? Protectionism?

Furthermore, If someone contacts me through other means (not suggesting for a minute that someone offers to buy or sell outside of eBay, no, that would be a terrible thing if anyone gave up on their ragged-trousered philanthropy and caused the poor, poor owners of ebay to have to bathe in one less glass of Champagne now & then), then that could, just pulling a figure out of the air at random, be worth, I don't, a 10% discount?

But I think you see the point - either I get the same net & the buyer gets it cheaper, or it's a bit better balanced & I get a little more, they pay a little less - either I'm no worse off, or I gain a little.


What annoys me is an apparently new thing of offering less than the buy it now price, through the "ask seller a question" function because the "best offer" option has been disabled - and there not being any benefit to the seller AT ALL.
Is this a "thing" now? Did someone publish a book (remember those? :whistle:) titled "Maybe Save a Few Bucks Now & Then from a Feebleminded Few at the Expense of Everyone You Come in to Contact With Thinking You're a Douche"? Is it a (let me get this right) a "meme"? :P
Not a very succinctly named one if it is, so I'll abbreviate it to "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct", which (if you don't get it :whistle:) is a portmanteau word combining "fiduciary misconduct" and "douche".
The later is a word I'd gone 40 years without seeing a need for (other than en Français), but recently I'm finding it more and more appropriate.

Some I just ignore for a while & the "problem" goes away when someone else buys it, I've tried saying no to some but that doesn't always work - some terminal cases come back with a counteroffer (really - to me, "no" is a refusal to negotiate, but they think it doesn't apply to them).
In extreme cases I've ended a listing rather than deal with any more of the horse puckey - some listings just seem to be a **** magnet.

Either way, I am offended by it - if was open to offers I'd use the "best offer" function, but the main issue for me is that I'm being offered a low price WITHOUT being offered anything by way of balance. The question might be couched neutrally in terms like "would you take xx less?", but what I think they're really saying is "Regardless of the price you're asking, I'm going to attempt to exercise some power over you by offering less". Even if their need to "win" like this is based on their own inadequacies, I'm still offended by it.

I'm thinking part of the problem is the rising tide of political correctness that means we're so worried about some 3rd party taking offense that we're polite, even when someone is trying it on, so that person never sees an honest reaction & never learns that it's NOT ok. I wonder if, instead of replying "No thanks" or "Not at the moment" or explaining the maths, it would be better if I were to say "x that", or "x that y, you z"? Or maybe get a little more creative, such as "Dear a, thank you for your enquiry. Having checked the listing carefully I can confirm there is no clause offering to be taken for a z, and on that basis I must decline your offer".

I wonder what eBay would have to say about that, because you know it's not the "potential buyer" that's going to suffer (not in this life anyway) when they go snivelling. I wonder what the rules are? I'm thinking it would probably be a 3 strikes & you're out system, so could call 2 different people a z (or one person a z twice) without a ban.

On balance it's probably better to save those *-bombs for now - no doubt, within 6 months or so, another bucket of manure will get dumped on the heads of sellers by eBay or by a minority of buyers ... and another one, and another.

Just in case anyone thinks I hate all eBay buyers, I have to say that's not the case - the majority are decent, communicative, cause no problems & leave feedback and appropriate star ratings - but a stubborn percentage seem to be determined to continue being stupid, awkward, or enjoy taking the smeg - sometimes in new ways.
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New variety of "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct" on eBay? 9 years 7 months ago #30615

Unfortunately, Ebay is all about the business of making money as a company, & as a wise bloke once pointed out to me, people don't always want to buy stuff, but people always want to sell stuff, SO keep the buyers happy to keep the money coming in, even if it upsets the sellers - there will always be more people wanting to sell when the "old hands" at the game get hacked off with being screwed over.
The most obvious demonstration of this was that sad day when Mr Ebay decided sellers couldn't leave anything other than good feedback. Says it all, they don't care what the buyers do to the sellers, as long as they get their percentage. Same goes if you've ever tried to convince Ebay to take "Ebay buyer protection policy" seriously & do something about getting your money back from a bum-deal.

I'm hoping that sooner or later there will be enough Ebay-narked people about that local classifieds paper selling will become popular again. I prefer dealing with people face to face, & there's far less scamming going on like that, your buyers suddenly remember that actually, buying second-hand stuff is always a gamble & you're responsible if what you bought isn't as good as you first thought

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New variety of "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct" on eBay? 9 years 7 months ago #30617

Jonny
I think I have come across a sellers response to this problem.
I came across an item for sale with buy it now, or best offer.
I offered 10% less than they were asking, it was rejected automatically. I offered 5% less, same result. I offered almost exactly what they wanted, 3rd rejection. After the third rejection you can make no more offers. I wast left with no options so I just bought it.

I was left a little miffed, why have best offer if you are not up for negotiating, but it suggests a possible approach.

The way to go about it may be increase the buy it now price by 10%, allow best offer, but reject all offers that are less than 10% below this. The buyer feels like he is negoatiating a good deal and you get your price ?

Everyone loves a bit of a haggle, what was that scene from Life of Brian


Terragni

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New variety of "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct" on eBay? 9 years 7 months ago #30619

...
I'm hoping that sooner or later there will be enough Ebay-narked people about that local classifieds paper selling will become popular again. ...


I don't know eddrick, I don't remember the time when free ads papers were the way to go that fondly - 20 years ago you might get 3 phone calls occasioning viewings, one would be someone really trying it on with the price (often before they'd even seen it), one wouldn't want it & the 3rd would buy without too much dicking about; 10 years ago probably the same but with another 7 calls selling advertising space... if you did it now, I suspect you'd be bombarded with nuisance & scam calls. Suddenly eBay doesn't seem so bad :sick:

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Last edit: by Jonny Retro.

New variety of "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct" on eBay? 9 years 7 months ago #30620

... why have best offer if you are not up for negotiating ...


I agree, that just seems like a waste of everyone's time :huh:

... The way to go about it may be increase the buy it now price by 10%, allow best offer, but reject all offers that are less than 10% below this. The buyer feels like he is negoatiating a good deal and you get your price ?...


That's a worthy suggestion - and I have tried it (though not with the +/-10% tweak) but with a listing that's BIN only you can require immediate payment; if you use the "Best Offer" function, _even with_ automatic acceptance enabled, buyers don't have to pay immediately - and then you're in to a whole other can of worms - the people who regard it as point of pride to delay payment, the "baggsiers" who think they might want it if they has some money left come next pay day & don't want anyone else to have it in the meantime, people that "buy" just to leave negative feedback for some imagined slight (usually saying "no" in any form)...

... Everyone loves a bit of a haggle...


I don't ... and you should try haggling with an old Japanese guy sometime ;)

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New variety of "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct" on eBay? 9 years 7 months ago #30621

... The way to go about it may be increase the buy it now price by 10%, allow best offer, but reject all offers that are less than 10% below this. The buyer feels like he is negoatiating a good deal and you get your price ?...

This is a well-known sales technique and what I would use with a "Best Offer" scenario. The fact that there is a "Best Offer" button implies, nay, states that you are willing to take an offer, so why would anyone pay the BIN price?

What gets me with the "Best Offer" system is when someone offers 1/3 of the asking price and expects it to be accepted :angry:

I went on a Sales course some years ago (yes, I am a Salesman) and one of the cardinal rules was never discount. If your customer wants to negotiate, then you need to get something in return. Or you include some value-added service (that doesn't cost you very much) in the price.
In the ebay scenario, the response would be "Yes, you can have it for £xxx if you collect and pay cash". Then you are appearing to be helpful and not saying "No".

I'm guessing ebay's gouging is at least partly responsible for the recent increase in Facebook selling sites. There are definitely some bargains to be had here if you can stand to use FB. There are some RC-specific ones too. I wonder how long it will take FB to realise there is a potential revenue stream there :dry:

Edit: Maybe we need a TB Memes thread:

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Last edit: by Martin Bell.

New variety of "Fi-Douche-ry Misconduct" on eBay? 9 years 7 months ago #30624

...
I'm hoping that sooner or later there will be enough Ebay-narked people about that local classifieds paper selling will become popular again. ...


I don't know eddrick, I don't remember the time when free ads papers were the way to go that fondly - 20 years ago you might get 3 phone calls occasioning viewings, one would be someone really trying it on with the price (often before they'd even seen it), one wouldn't want it & the 3rd would buy without too much dicking about; 10 years ago probably the same but with another 7 calls selling advertising space... if you did it now, I suspect you'd be bombarded with nuisance & scam calls. Suddenly eBay doesn't seem so bad :sick:


I am quite fond with the online classifieds we have here, Kijiji (bought by Ebay :( ) and Quoka, my wallet on the otherhand isnt :whistle:
In the last couple days I scored a QD Thundershot, a carbon framed wild dagger and maybe an Vanquish, all from friendly seller and for resonable(i think) prices. Apparently its summer cleanup thanks to the loads of rain we had.
I dont do much on complete cars on Ebay, not enough room for hassling. :pinch:
Do find Ebay good for sourcing spares.

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