TOPIC:

Great, now my $400 mint condition built out of the box and never run Fox will be worth $90....
What's next Tamiya? Re-re Bigwig? So the 4 I have will be worth $100 combined... How about making some new cars instead of making re-re's.

Agree 100%

Wish they'd stop messing about with re-res & put some effort into coming up with something special/decent, rather than messing about with engineering that's over 2 decades old.
Where would Honda be if they followed suit? C'mon Japs, you're supposed to be leaders in this sort of thing!

Agree 100%

Anyone is looking at RC as an investment should have got by now - it's been obvious for some time that nothing is "safe" from being re-released ...
Even so, I don't see any evidence that re-releases harm the financial value of decent examples of the originals

Some evidence:

In 2009 (pre-reissue), Sand Scorcher body sets were selling for up to US$1100.



In 2013 (post-reissue), a Sand Scorcher ENTIRE KIT sometimes does not sell on eBay for as low as $1400



Oh, and I sold a body set the other day. I was lucky to find a buyer for it at $450.

Sand Scorcher prices for new vintage kits and bodies, have collapsed by around 50% by my reckoning.
There is some sign of a turnaround though, and I have seen some vintage kits recovering in value in recent times.

But still, Tamiya are ruining the prestige of their vintage collectibles via all their witless cash-grabbing reissues. It's a short term profit, but it will hurt them in the longer term.

The way things are going, Kyosho is going to become the prestige collectible brand that everyone lusts after.

H.

It's making an appearance in Shizuoka today.



tamiyablog.com/...-releases/

Hibernaculum wrote:

...

But still, Tamiya are ruining the prestige of their vintage collectibles via all their witless cash-grabbing reissues. It's a short term profit, but it will hurt them in the longer term.

The way things are going, Kyosho is going to become the prestige collectible brand that everyone lusts after.

H.

Oh come on, that's a great big steaming load right there

How are re-releases going to hurt Tamiya? Even if there are legions of collectors who are now turning round and saying "Right! That's it! I'm totally going to never buy another 30 year old car off eBay, just in case Tamiya re-release it!", why would Tamiya care? I shouldn't have to point out that Tamiya don't make anything when someone "collects" a vintage car, only when they sell something new; anyone who only buys old stuff is _not_ a Tamiya customer, and the "prestige" of vintage Tamiya stuff is something Tamiya can only take advantage of by re-releasing kits.

As for buying Kyosho cars instead, you have to ask yourself just why you are collecting... I have Tamiya cars as for me it's about nostalgia: in some way recapuring the fun I had with them in childhood, by owning decent examples of cars I abused, or pawed over pictures in catalogues in the past. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if everyone else had the same cars.

If you're collecting to have something that is rare & not available to everyone, then call me a left pinko but I find that elitist, and I have no sympathy for that at all

Edou wrote:

It's making an appearance in Shizuoka today.

...
tamiyablog.com/...-releases/

Differences I see are the rear shock tower is black GRP instead of "natural", shagwittedly pointless addition of "Nova" on all the decals (which you'll be stuck with, as they're printed on the body & wing decal panels), and a front rollbar is included ... even if it does look like a bit of a cheap lashup

Originality fans will no doubt be pleased to see that the completely inaccesible RX position has been retained, necessiating almost complete dismantling to change the xtal

I expect certain sellers of spares located in Japan will do a great trade in wheels & wishbones, but they'll probably have to be at quite a high price to make up for the other bits no-one needs

Jonny wrote:

Oh come on, that's a great big steaming load right there

Nah...

Jonny wrote:

How are re-releases going to hurt Tamiya? Even if there are legions of collectors who are now turning round and saying "Right! That's it! I'm totally going to never buy another 30 year old car off eBay, just in case Tamiya re-release it!", why would Tamiya care? I shouldn't have to point out that Tamiya don't make anything when someone "collects" a vintage car, only when they sell something new; anyone who only buys old stuff is _not_ a Tamiya customer, and the "prestige" of vintage Tamiya stuff is something Tamiya can only take advantage of by re-releasing kits.

Yes, and by "taking advantage of" their own prestige in the collectibles market, Tamiya also cheapens their brand - rehashing, cashing in, and spreading it thin, until it's no longer a desirable rarity.

Many companies make a conscious and measured effort not to overplay their hand in order to carefully preserve a level exclusivity and prestige, because its more of a psychological state in the consumer's mind than anything to do with quality. But the more a brand pushes and markets something, the more common it can become.

Take Lego. It has prestige and collectibility because no matter how many new kits they make, they never reissue the old ones - causing all vintage Lego to be highly prized and adored by nostalgia buffs. As soon as a popular Lego set is discontinued, it creeps up in value. And many people adore collecting it while its available because it's nice to keep it later, when it's long gone from the market and harder to find.

If Lego reissued all their collectible sets all the time, fewer people would bother, and Lego collecting would become less of a hobby.

In this way, Tamiya hurts their own brand by being so "reissue happy". Collecting isn't just about vintage stuff, it applies to current products. If all Tamiya fans knew that the moment Tamiya discontinues something, it will never be seen again, this would have the psychological effect of making more of them want to grab it before its gone - and collect it.

Instead everybody now knows that unlike Lego, nothing is ever safe from reissue with Tamiya. If you miss out - don't worry! In 5 years time, Tamiya will rerelease it for more profitz.

But long term, this stifles collectibility.
And sadly, it also means that Tamiya is ignoring the opportunity to create new cars that might be the collectibles of the future, because they are wasting time rehashing the successes of the past.

Another example is if Porsche increased production and reissued a modern 911 that was as cheap as a Hyundai, who'd care about Porsche anymore? It's prestige would be gone.

The analogy isn't quite the same in this case, since original Tamiyas were often quite cheap back in their day. But their reputation over the years was making them quite an upmarket collectible until about 2005. Since then, Tamiya have done everything they possibly could to stop that happening, flooding the market with everything from reissues to t-shirts to coffee cup cars and other cafepress style custom souvenirs - thus cheapening their brand as well.

Jonny wrote:

As for buying Kyosho cars instead, you have to ask yourself just why you are collecting... I have Tamiya cars as for me it's about nostalgia: in some way recapuring the fun I had with them in childhood, by owning decent examples of cars I abused, or pawed over pictures in catalogues in the past. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if everyone else had the same cars.
If you're collecting to have something that is rare & not available to everyone, then call me a left pinko but I find that elitist, and I have no sympathy for that at all

Honestly, please don't take the discussion down that road. The number of times I have seen someone talk about collectibility and value, only to have someone else counter-argue with some ridiculous angle about "elitism" or "investment"...

First, I only collect what I love. Whether its $5 or $5000, I love it the same. That's why I love to own many, many cheap toy grade R/C cars (I have over a hundred) and I blog about them, just as much as the hobby grade ones. I've been vocal about the benefits of both for a long time actually!

Second, there is nothing wrong with taking enjoyment from finding and collecting rare pieces that few (if any) other people have. Is there? It's not the reason why I collect, or otherwise I would own nothing but rare items. As I said, I only collect the cars I actually love for reasons of nostalgia, memories, or general retro appeal.

But as a side effect of loving the early 1980s RC toys of all kinds, it's nice to own and preserve some rare ones. It's nice to hunt for treasure and save hard to finally find rare spares and finish a project. I enjoy that some things are rare and hard to get. It makes finally getting them quite satisfying in a way. And there's nothing wrong with that.

For me, real enjoyment of vintage Tamiya does not mean having every single Tamiya product ever made, freely on-tap and available on eBay for a cheap price. Part of the appeal of vintage, is that it's actually a bit "lost" and rare and old.

I can totally understand how you can be an enthusiast and not care one hoot about rarity, collectibility or value. But if someone else does enjoy those things, it does not make them elitist. Or else every serious collector of rare stuff on the planet is an elitist. The hunt for treasure is part of the fun, that's all.

As for Kyosho, I love those some of those cars as much as Tamiya. Therefore, my point is that as Tamiya systematically snuff out their own vintage collectibility with reissues, fans of both big brands and who enjoy the vintage treasure hunt aspect, will start to lean toward Kyosho.

H.



www.rctoymemories.com

Retro making 'friends' again....
HAHAHAHA
Lighten up all of you.
I used to race these junkers. OH that should make me some more friends who love Tamiyas.
Lets be real, the FOX and 99% of the Tamiya black plastic buggies were junk to actually race in mostly stock form against any USA-made -top of the line- 1980's buggies or Kyosho, AYK.
They filled a niche' for R/C beginners and 50% of R/C car owners when they were new[in the 70-80's].
When the bottom fell out of the golden era of r/c buggy racing[in the late 80's in the USA], Tamiya still had their F1 cars selling okay.
Lets be honest, when my buddies and I saw Tamiya FROGS, HORNETS, and others selling at TOYS R US in the late 80's....we all knew then...they were really no better then KMART or NIKKO rc toys junk.
I loved Tamiya and their box art since day one in the 1970's.
I began collecting Tamiya just because they had r/c copies of real world winning cars.
Mostly in F1, but other formats too.

Its just nice to know, if you missed out on a car in 1985...it might be made again?
No big deal.
Tamiya will be fine, its their choice to reissue these old kits.
I can't believe anyone would be mad about this.
Most collectors wanted them to bring out the Scorcher, then more old kits, and more, and more.
It is nice to finally have one in your hands that was wayyy too over priced before.
But I'm done for now with any collecting of these older Tamiya cars.
I have almost every onroad/F1 kit ever made anyways up to 100 or so.
Like I've said, maybe some of the old F1/F2 cars and a few of the other old metal chassis cars wont be re issued.
But otherwise, most of us should be feeling the pain of knowing your **shelf treasure** is going to have a newly-made clone real soon!
The *shelf treasure* is then going to be worth $200 maybe, NOT $2000! hahahahahaha

Kyosho and others are better for now to collect for a bonus of cash in future?
If thats why your into collecting to begin with?
Or take up collecting vintage motorcycles or cars like I have also been doing for the last 25yrs??
I'm sure in a few years some of the old original Tamiya cars will be going for some good cash again.
Just kiss the brainless madness of $5000usd NIB-Scorchers good bye forever!
Bring on the FOX and many more Tamiya!

BTW, I love your blog- Hibernaculm
I can't wait til' the USA A&E TV networks 'TOY HUNTER' guy finds some old Tamiya cars! hahahahahaha
robracer

Obviously reissues can be a divisive issue, and I'm never going to convince everyone to agree with me No problem there.

Robracer, thanks for the compliment! A few of your comments...
- I thought (the guy in the wheelchair etc) was legit? Bought lots from him.
- I also loved the Tamiya Collector's website and articles, back in the late 90s etc.
- I also know people who have bought up old stock and resold it.
- I have no idea if any of those people were scammers, as I never had problems

I myself have bought old stock and resold it for profit. Nothing wrong with that, I got lucky a few times. The guys currently on eBay who typically sell vintage kits all the time, are still doing the exact same thing. It's all just part of the trade - find something cheaper because the world can't see it, and then sell it on the world stage where it has higher value.

Generally, I just try to deal fair - middle of the road, reasonable negotiations, reasonable selling prices, and so on. I bought a kit for $1000 from someone last week, and there was a short friendly negotiation. If I had waited, I might have found that kit somewhere cheaper. But I knew the seller needed to make something on it, above what he paid, and I knew what it would be worth on ebay if I bought it there

So I dunno, most of the people I have ever bought from in the R/C community, have been pretty good in my experience!

H.

I edited some of my comments section.
Too many issues in the world already, no need stir up the collector world.
I'm just here to have fun, but I know what I'm talking or was talking about to be 100% true!
You might want to edit yours too Hibernaculum.
We knew the same people......hummm
robracer

vintage/original will always be vintage/original and re-release will always be re-release. It's up to Joe buyer to decide which one he can afford or wants, if he wants the thrill of the hunt for a rare gem or is happy to ebay for reissues Remember Tamiya is a business.

hypothetical question: Tamiya are in financial difficulties and the only way for them to avoid closing the doors is to re-release the first 100.

answer options: (1) close the doors. (2) re-release the first 100 (3) accept donations from all Tamiya collectors?

Been waiting a long time for this one

Pity about the decals but looks fairly original i had better start saving any idea of a release date?